Is the Bible the Literal Word of God?

My friend Ansar Raza has challenged me on two issues: "Is the Bible the Literal Word of God?" and "Is the Bible the Inspired Word of God?" Here I will quote his first argument and provide a brief response. If you have been directed to this site from an external source, please familiarize yourself with this introduction.

Ansar's Argument: The Bible Cannot be the Literal Word of God
Bible cannot be literal word of God as it is not in the original language in which God spoke to the prophets. Even the original Greek manuscripts are not available. What we have today is the ‘translation’ of the ‘translation’. Different versions of Bible are in circulation in the world. How can we tell which one is the word of God and which one is not? Further, if the whole Bible is word of God, then why many statements attributed to God are written in quotations? For example, in the following verses taken from Genesis-3, words in quotations are God’s own words.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?" 10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid." 11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
It shows that the words outside quotations are not God’s words, literally revealed upon or inspired to Moses, but of the author of Genesis in later period who also wrote in Deuteronomy (34:5-8) about the death and burial of Moses. Thus the Bible cannot be called literal word of God as the original words spoken by God are not known today.


Analyzing Ansar's Argument
For various reasons, I'm not sure I understand his last paragraph, but I think I have the gist of his argument. Ansar has, explicitly or implicitly, taken the following positions:
1 - In order to be the literal word of God, the Bible must be in the original language in which God spoke to the prophets.
2 - We do not have the original Greek manuscripts; what we have today is the translation of a translation.
3 - The existence of different versions of the Bible means that the Bible cannot be the literal word of God.
4 - Since there are words in the Bible that do not belong to God, the Bible cannot be called the literal word of God.

When we further unpack Ansar's position, we find the following presuppositions:
5 - The "literal word of God" must mean exact words dictated by God and heard by prophets.
6 - Our possession of the original manuscripts somehow affects whether the Bible is the literal word of God.


Responding
The place we must start is #5. What does Ansar mean by the word "literal?" Ansar has imported a fallacious view of inspiration to the Bible, and thus has misrepresented what a Christian might mean when he says the Bible is the "literal" word of God. This is what we call a "straw man fallacy"; in other words, Ansar has inaccurately represented the Christian position, and then has attacked that inaccurate representation, leaving the real position untouched.

When a Christian says the Bible is the literal word of God, he does not envision a Muslim view of inspiration by dictation, as if prophets have a heavenly fax machine that prints out word for word what God tells them to say. The Christian view of inspiration is that God uses the mind, vocabulary, experiences, etc. of a human author to express exactly that which God intended him to express. In other words, God uses a human author to craft the exact message God intends to convey.

When I as a Christian say "The Bible is the literal word of God" I mean that the Bible is the result of the Holy Spirit inspiring a very real human to write words which we can literally ascribe to God Himself. I do not mean that God spoke an audible voice in a human language which has then been transcribed.

This response nullifies many of Ansar's positions, i.e. #1, #4, and #5. It has shown Ansar's whole argument to be radically misdirected, and thus adequately demonstrated why Ansar's argument fails.


For Good Measure
But there's plenty more that's problematic with Ansar's argument.

  • Whatever he conceives #2 to mean, it is false. If by "original Greek manuscripts" he means we do not have any Greek manuscripts, that is blatantly false. If by "original Greek manuscripts" he means the autographs, that does not yield the conclusion that all we have is "a translation of a translation." It would mean we have copies, or copies of copies, since we do have Greek Manuscripts, and the original language of the NT was obviously Greek.
  • Due to lack of precision, we cannot be sure what Ansar means by #3. My guess, though, is that he is conflating "versions" and "translations." The existence of the NIV, NASB, RSV, ESV, etc. does not mean anything for the Greek, since these are all based on the Greek text.
  • #6 is a false notion as well, since whether we have the autographs has nothing to do with whether what we have is the literal word of God or not.

Three Fingers Pointing Back
However, what is surprising is that Ansar would advance some of these arguments in light of the fact that he is a Muslim. Ansar is not arguing in a void, he is arguing as a Muslim. If he presupposes certain truths which undercut his own theology, it can only tell us that he either does not believe in his own arguments or he does not believe in his own faith. Unfortunately, all four of his major points undercut his own theology.
  • #1 undermines the authority of the Qur'an, since Muhammad never heard a single word spoken to him by God. The Muslim consensus is that Muhammad heard the angel Gabriel, not Allah. Thus, according to Ansar's argument, the Qur'an cannot be the literal word of Allah (though it can be the literal word of Gabriel).
  • #2 undermines the authority of the Qur'an, because we do not have the autographs of the Qur'an. What's worse, all the Qur'anic material written during Muhammad's lifetime was systematically destroyed by Uthman. What we have today is a copy of a reconstruction, not even a copy of a copy.
  • #3 undermines the authority of the Qur'an, because not only are there different "versions" of the Qur'an (that is, translations) but there are also different "readings" of the Qur'an. Most of the Muslim world reads what's called the Hafs an Asim, that is, the reading of the Hafs qirat as read by Asim. This is one of 10 major readings of the Hafs qiraat. Another commonly read qirat is Warsh an Nafi, that is, the Warsh qirat as read by Nafi. These are two of 80 versions of the Qur'an which resulted from Ibn Mujahid's attempt to limit how many versions of the Qur'an were official in the late second/early third century AH.
  • #4 undermines the authority of the Qur'an, as well. Read Surah al-Fatiha, the first surah of the Qur'an. This is a prayer to Allah. Obviously, then, it cannot be Allah speaking to Muhammad. Thus, according to Ansar's criteria, the Qur'an cannot literally be the word of God.
Far from arguing against the Bible being the literal word of God, Ansar has demonstrated that, by his own standards, the Qur'an is not the literal word of God.


Logical and Personal Integrity
It behooves Ansar at this time to either recant his argumentation, which has been shown to undermine his worldview, or to recant his worldview. Lord, I pray it is the latter! But, if experience means anything, I know it will be neither. Ansar will sidestep his own faulty position and attempt to poke holes in my position. However, as we have seen, if Ansar represents my position accurately, his argument loses all potency.

41 comments:

  1. Likewise, Sura Maryam contains an interjection from the messenger Gabriel (the messenger) to Muhammad: “We descend only at the bidding of Your Lord” (19:63). According to Muslim commentators, these are the words of the angel Gabriel, in reply to Muhammad’s complaint of long intervals elapsing between periods of revelation. (see http://www.unchangingword.com/obj_misc_31manswords.php )

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  2. Excellent point. Thank you, UCW.com.

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  3. Nabeel wrote:

    "The Christian view of inspiration is that God uses the mind, vocabulary, experiences, etc. of a human author to express exactly that which God intended him to express. In other words, God uses a human author to craft the exact message God intends to convey. When I as a Christian say "The Bible is the literal word of God" I mean that the Bible is the result of the Holy Spirit inspiring a very real human to write words which we can literally ascribe to God Himself. I do not mean that God spoke an audible voice in a human language which has then been transcribed."

    I say:
    First of all, it is against the norms of intellectual discussion that we invent our own definitions and then claim our position correct on the basis of that fabricated and partisan definition. We need to have a commonly accepted and agreed definition of any term we wish to use for the authenticity of our beliefs and then show on the basis of it that we are right and others are wrong. If you expect me to follow what a Christian thinks or what he envisions, then there is no point to have this debate. Further, on the same track, shouldn’t I demand that you accept what a Muslim follows and envisions?

    Secondly, your definition and remark “as if prophets have a heavenly fax machine that prints out word for word what God tells them to say” is against the Bible. There are many instances mentioned in the Bible that God literally spoke to the Prophets who literally heard Him saying something to them. I quote one such example here. In 1 Samuel 3 God called Samuel and he literally heard God calling his name and then he said: “Speak, for your servant is listening.” And then God spoke to him.

    Thus it is quite clear that your definition is not only against the common literary standards but also against your own book you claim to follow. It further proves that you have failed to rebut my argument that the Bible is not the word of God.

    Another important point to be kept in mind is that none of the authors of any book of the Bible ever claimed that he is being inspired by God and under that divine inspiration he is writing that book. On the contrary, as I referred to in my document, Luke stated:

    " 1 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught."

    Luke is saying that these accounts were ‘handed down” to them and then he “investigated” them and now writing for Theophilus. Nowhere he or any other author ever claims that he is writing under the inspiration of God. So what you are doing is putting your words in the mouths of authors of the Bible and attributing to them something they do not claim.

    As far as the statements of angels in Qur`an are concerned, this is not the only instance. They are quoted as saying something on other places in Qur`an. But you must remember that angels are not like humans to have their own independent mind and intellect to think and make their own statements. Allah says about angels in Qur`an:

    [16:50-51]and the angels too, and they do not behave proudly. They fear their Lord above them, and do what they are commanded

    So whatever they have been quoted as saying are not their statements but ordered by God to say to those whom they are revealing those statements.

    The question about Qur`an being literal word of God or not shall be settled at appropriate time. You must keep in mind that if anyone ever proves that Qur`an is not word of God, that does not render Bible as word of God. So focus on one thing at a time which is now questioning the Bible being word of God.

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  4. Hi,
    Reading both of the arguments so far, I have to say that some of Ansar's points in his second response were already answered.

    Ansar wrote:
    First of all, it is against the norms of intellectual discussion that we invent our own definitions and then claim our position correct on the basis of that fabricated and partisan definition.

    Exactly, that is why Nabeel wrote (before Reza wrote his response):
    Ansar has imported a fallacious view of inspiration to the Bible, and thus has misrepresented what a Christian might mean when he says the Bible is the "literal" word of God. This is what we call a "straw man fallacy"; in other words, Ansar has inaccurately represented the Christian position, and then has attacked that inaccurate representation, leaving the real position untouched.

    It's interesting that Ansar didn't responded to them (the straw man fallacy) yet actually agreed with it (with a different wording!).

    And Ansar didn't respond to some of his view which "undercut his own theology".

    For now, what I see is inconsistency from Ansar.

    p/s: Nabeel and Ansar, no need to respond to my comment. Just think of me as a reader who is thinking out loud.

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  5. tiwas!

    My point is that a Christian definition should be according to the Bible. You can not concoct a definition for your belief system out of your scripture let alone such a definition which goes against your scriptures. Straw man fallacy is that I create a bogus principle for Christians and then start proving it wrong which is not true in my case but, regrettably for Christians who are doing this to Islam.

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  6. Hi Ansar,
    Exactly my point. You gave a definition that is not what Christian hold regarding the Bible.

    And I will not be responding to any further comment. Looking forward to read more on this exchange.

    Tiwas.

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  7. tiwas!
    The funny thing is that the definition Christians hold regarding the Bible is against the Bible itself. This is the point you do not wish to even think about.

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  8. I agree with Nabeel's response. And he was accurate in predicting what Ansar would do i.e. ignore his 'own faulty position' and makes an attempt to poke new holes.

    Well done Nabeel.

    And to Ansar's final comment, the definition Christians hold regarding the Bible is just as Nabeel stated it. The definition you seem to give to us is the definition Muslims hold in regard to the Qur'an. Please try and understand what you're trying to make us see.. it is a concept we do not hold. You are attacking a STRAW-MAN!

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  9. Ndn Takeover!

    My request is that you may ignore and completely forget what and how I define the Bible using my alleged "straw man fallacy" or any name you give it, but please prove your own definition, the Christian definition, according to the Bible. Quote from the Bible the definition it presents, if any, about its status that what kind of Word of God it is, literal or inspired and if inspired, how this inspiration took place. Do not fabricate your own definitions or put your words in the mouth of the authors of the Bible.

    I wonder why Nabeel is not responding to my last comments to his post. He must be busy in some other more important tasks than to respond to me. Anyways, I'm looking forward to his response.

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  10. Ansar--

    I just finished attending the first of 5 conferences for November; I wont be home until after Thanksgiving. I hope to reply to you soon, but cannot promise exactly when. In the meantime, perhaps you can reply to my whole assessment, and not just select portions of it? That will make for a better dialogue.

    Cheers,
    -Nabeel

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  11. Mr Rasa,

    As to the way that the bible describes how the word of God became, here are the verses that I look to as a Sola Scriptura Christian

    First of all, Jesus promised his apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to them, after He Himself departed to heaven.

    When the Holy Spirit came, He told them not only what was required to enter the kingdom of heaven, but He reminded them of the things that Jesus had already told them.

    John 14:25-27
    25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    The Holy Spirit descended on the apostles fifty days after Jesus rose from the grave, on the day of Pentecost.

    Acts 2
    1 When the day of Pentecost [a]had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire [b]distributing themselves, and [c]they [d]rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other [e]tongues, as the Spirit was giving them [f]utterance.

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  12. the rest of the information about Christian prophesy

    The apostles were able to put their hands on men who could also prophesy for the infant church. But this gift was temporary, and the only men who were able to allot this gift were the apostles. That means that after the apostles died, the gifts of prophetic utterances died too.

    Acts 8:14-21
    14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized [e]in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or portion in this [f]matter, for your heart is not right before God

    The apostles made sure that the information that Christians were required to know concerning the kingdom of Heaven were written down for all generations before they died.

    2 Peter 1:10-15
    10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

    12 Therefore, I will always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. 13 I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you will be able to call these things to mind.


    2 Peter 1:16-20
    16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an [a]utterance as this was [b]made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”— 18 and we ourselves heard this [c]utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
    19 [d]So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,


    Ephesians 3:2-5
    2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.

    After the apostles died, prophesy ceased

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  13. Mr. Nabeel!
    What I requested you to provide is not a huge research task to fulfill. All you need to do is quote the biblical definition of Word of God. I don't think that an active and prolific biblical scholar like you need to dig-in that definition from the Bible that may take much of your time. As I promised, we'll talk about other things also but one point at a time.

    donna60!
    None of the verses you quoted define the Word of God. I did not ask how the Word of God became. I asked what is the biblical definition of Word of God.

    You claimed that on the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost ascended on the apostles and told them that which Jesus did not tell them, but the bible does not tell us what was that which the Holy Ghost told them. Nobody ever knows the contents of those things told by the Holy Ghost.

    Further, Peter never called day of Pentecost event as fulfillment of the promise of Jesus and coming of the Holy Ghost but the fulfillment of what Prophet Joel said:

    (Acts 2:13-16) "Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel..."

    I wonder why you Christian attribute to the authors of the Bible what they do not appear to say! By doing so you verify what Qur`an (2:80) said about you that they write with their own hands and then say it is from God.

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  14. There were a couple of mistakes in my last post. This is the correct version. Sorry for any inconvenience!

    Mr. Nabeel!
    What I requested you to provide is not a huge research task to fulfill. All you need to do is quote the biblical definition of Word of God. I don't think that an active and prolific biblical scholar like you need to dig-in that definition from the Bible that may take much of your time. As I promised, we'll talk about other things also but one point at a time.

    donna60!
    None of the verses you quoted define the Word of God. I did not ask how the Word of God became. I asked what is the biblical definition of Word of God.

    You claimed that on the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost came down on the apostles and told them that which Jesus did not tell them, but the bible does not tell us what was that which the Holy Ghost told them. Nobody ever knows the contents of those things told by the Holy Ghost.

    Further, Peter never called day of Pentecost event as fulfillment of the promise of Jesus and coming of the Holy Ghost but the fulfillment of what Prophet Joel said:

    (Acts 2:13-16) "Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel..."

    I wonder why you Christians attribute to the authors of the Bible what they do not appear to say! By doing so you verify what Qur`an (2:80) said about you that they write with their own hands and then say it is from God.

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  15. Mr Raza,

    Why are you questioning that Peter called the day of Pentecost, the fulfillment of the comingof the Holy Spirit, because it was the fulfillment of what Prophet Joel said?

    Didn't you read what Joel prophesied?

    Joel 2:28

    28 “It will come about after this
    That I will pour out My Spirit on all [q]mankind;
    And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    Your old men will dream dreams,
    Your young men will see visions.
    29 “Even on the male and female servants
    I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

    The prophesy of Joel was about the coming of the Holy Spirit, which was, as Jesus foretold, given to the apostles to teach them the word of God.

    John 14:25-27
    25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

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  16. The word of God, is the word given to us from God, through his prophets, which was written down and preserved by God's people.


    2 Peter 1:20-21
    20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


    Luke 1:69-70
    69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
    In the house of David His servant—
    70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from of old—


    Luke 16:15-16
    15 Then he said to them, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God.
    16 “Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in.


    Luke 16:28-30
    28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

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  17. More verses describing the word of God as being those words spoken through the prophets, and written down and preserved.

    Luke 24:26-27
    26 Wasn’t it clearly predicted that the Messiah would have to suffer all these things before entering his glory?” 27 Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

    John 1:44-46
    44 Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

    46 “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked.

    “Come and see,” said Philip.


    John 6:44-46
    44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[a] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

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  18. Just a few more verses which describe the word of God as those words spoken through prophets and written down and preserved

    Acts 3:20-22
    20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.



    Acts 15:14-16
    14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

    16 “‘After this I will return
    and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
    Its ruins I will rebuild,
    and I will restore it,




    Acts 15:31-33
    31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them.


    Acts 24:13-15
    13 Nor can they prove to you the charges of which they now accuse me. 14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve [a]the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


    Acts 26:21-23
    21 Some Jews arrested me in the Temple for preaching this, and they tried to kill me. 22 But God has protected me right up to this present time so I can testify to everyone, from the least to the greatest. I teach nothing except what the prophets and Moses said would happen—23 that the Messiah would suffer and be the first to rise from the dead, and in this way announce God’s light to Jews and Gentiles alike.”

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  19. Only a few more verses. It sure doesn't take very many verses to be more than 4096 characters

    Acts 28:22-24

    22 But we want to hear what your views are, for we know that people everywhere are talking against this sect.”

    23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.


    Romans 16:25-27
    25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; 27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.


    Ephesians 3:4-6
    4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


    Hebrews 1:1
    1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,


    James 5:10-11
    10 Brothers and sisters, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.


    Luke 24:26-27
    26 Wasn’t it clearly predicted that the Messiah would have to suffer all these things before entering his glory?” 27 Then Jesus took them through the writings of Moses and all the prophets, explaining from all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.


    John 1:44-46
    44 Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

    46 “Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked.

    “Come and see,” said Philip.


    John 6:44-46
    44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[a] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.


    Acts 3:20-22
    20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

    21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

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  20. Just one more list of verses which show that the word of God are those words He gave to His prophets, and which were written down and preserved:

    Acts 15:14-16
    14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

    16 “‘After this I will return
    and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
    Its ruins I will rebuild,
    and I will restore it,




    Acts 15:31-33
    31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them.


    Acts 24:13-15
    13 Nor can they prove to you the charges of which they now accuse me. 14 But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve [a]the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets; 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


    Acts 26:21-23
    21 Some Jews arrested me in the Temple for preaching this, and they tried to kill me. 22 But God has protected me right up to this present time so I can testify to everyone, from the least to the greatest. I teach nothing except what the prophets and Moses said would happen—23 that the Messiah would suffer and be the first to rise from the dead, and in this way announce God’s light to Jews and Gentiles alike.”

    Acts 28:22-24

    22 But we want to hear what your views are, for we know that people everywhere are talking against this sect.”

    23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe.


    Romans 16:25-27
    25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; 27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.


    Ephesians 3:4-6
    4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


    Hebrews 1:1
    1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,


    James 5:10-11
    10 Brothers and sisters, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11 As you know, we count as blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Mr Razq

    This is what you wrote:
    You claimed that on the day of Pentecost Holy Ghost came down on the apostles and told them that which Jesus did not tell them, but the bible does not tell us what was that which the Holy Ghost told them. Nobody ever knows the contents of those things told by the Holy Ghost.

    That is Balarney! The reason that the Holy Spirit came to earth was to tell the apostles and prophet what to write, and you howled when I gave you the verses, because "You didn't ask how we got the word of God"-- but I have no other choice but to give them again!

    John 14:25-27
    25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    Ephesians 3:4-6
    4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hi donna,
    I think the main point of Ansar argument is the definition of "literal word of God" as Nabeel pointed out. Take that out and all of his (Ansar) other arguments crumbled.

    I'm sure he himself notice that which is why he keep demanding his definition to be accepted (by asking evidences from the Bible).

    ReplyDelete
  23. Mr Raza,


    "I wonder why you Christians attribute to the authors of the Bible what they do not appear to say! By doing so you verify what Qur`an (2:80) said about you that they write with their own hands and then say it is from God."

    Well if that is what Mohammad wrote, then he surely was mistaken. Because when Mohammad was alive and well on planet earth, in the 7th century, Christians weren't writing anything and saying it was from God.

    As I have already shown you through NT scripture, by the end of the first century, all prophesy had ceased and the cannon had closed. No one doubted that in the 600s. There were no church councils posing words and letters as the words of God.

    At least not to my knowledge. If the church was presenting texts outside of the NT cannon we currently read, please document what those were.

    And if Mohammad said that Christians were doing that in the 7th century, and it wasn't true.....

    ReplyDelete
  24. Tiwas,

    What he asked for was the biblical definition of the word of God. According to scripture, it is the words that prophets wrote down.

    Then he howled because I described the method that this occurred in the New Testament, because he stated it wasn't what he wanted.

    Then he denied that we know what the Holy Spirit wrote, because he refused to read what I wrote about the role of the Holy Spirit, and how the pouring out of the Holy Spirit came about on the day of Pentecost.

    He needs to make up his mind what he wants.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Mr Raza;

    I answered this question which you posed:

    "I'll, insha-Allah watch your videos later but here I would like to ask you a question. Deuteronomy 13:5, 18:20, Jeremiah 14:14-16, 28:9, Matthew 15:13, 2Peter 1:21, and Acts 5:33-42 say that a false Prophet never succeeds. Don't you think that the global success of Prophet Muhammad's message prove that, according to the quoted biblical criteria, he was a true prophet send by God?

    You never replied. Perhaps you didn't see that post.

    The answer is that it would have been impossible for Mohammad to have been successful among God's people, which is what a prophet is expected to be. It doesn't matter how successful he was to the heathen.

    If Moses would have only convinced the Hittites that he was from God, it wouldn't matter if there were a gazillion Hittites, they weren't God's people.

    Mohammad could not have possibly have succeeded in convincing God's people, because by the 7th century the NT canon had already been permanently closed for roughly five-hundred years--since the end of the first century.

    ReplyDelete
  26. donna60!

    You are very emotional and had nothing to offer but tall rhetorical claims. I simply asked to quote from the Bible that it is word of God. I did not ask to show that it is literal word of God, as tiwas wrongly attributed to me.

    All the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the definition but claims and claims cannot prove anything. How can I trust the Bible unless you prove that it is a word of God? Why would you quote from it when you can't even define what is word of God and where it says in the Bible?

    I ask again why did not Peter said that it is fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus? Why did he refer to Prophet Joel?

    Further, Joel said:

    that God will pour out His Spirit on all mankind;and their sons and daughters will prophesy,their old men will dream dreams,their young men will see visions and even on the male and female servants He will pour out His Spirit in those days, but you said that this Holy Spirit was poured down only on the disciples and it discontinued after them. This is not only contrary to what the Bible says but also shows that the days of Jesus' ministry is over.

    You claimed:

    "The reason that the Holy Spirit came to earth was to tell the apostles and prophet what to write"

    But Jesus said in John 16:12-15:

    12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

    That is why I said that you attribute to the Bible what it does not say. The Bible says that new things shall be made known to them what they do not yet know and can't bear them now in the life-time of Jesus) but amazingly very soon after 40 days they became so powerful that they bore all those hitherto unknown things which your supposed Holy Spirit told them.

    Again, without indulging into lengthy and irrelevant details I simply ask you to quote from the Bible the definition of word of God (literal, inspirational or of any other kind but not according to your own whims and desires but what Bible says it is).

    You seem to be very ignorant by saying that Muhammad converted only heathens. A huge number of Christians entered into Islam and still joining it all over the world.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Hi Ansar,

    Did I wrongly attributed your position? But, you wrote:
    "Thus the Bible cannot be called literal word of God as the original words spoken by God are not known today."

    - Where did I wrongly attributed your position?

    You wrote: "I simply asked to quote from the Bible that it is word of God".

    - Well, that's quite easy actually, here it is.

    "Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness" - 2 Timothy 3:16 (NET Bible)

    The next question would be, "How did God inspired the scripture?" That's where we differ. Nabeel already answered this question but you decided to attack his answer.

    Donna also gave a more detail explanation, yet you also discarded them as "rhetorical claim".

    And I noticed that you seems to change your argument. Early on, you were questioning whether the Bible is the literal word of God. But after it was shown that you were attacking a straw man, you changed it into "the biblical definition of Word of God". Which one?

    I'm yet to read your response on why you used an argument which undercut your own theology.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Mr Raza,

    This is the third time I have posted the exact same thing in regards to the prophesy of Joel. Please bother to read it this time. I read what you say, is it that hard to give me the same curtesy?

    This is what Peter wrote in Acts 2:


    14 But Peter, [o]taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. 15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the [p]third hour of the day; 16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
    17 ‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says,
    ‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL [q]MANKIND;
    AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
    AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
    AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
    18 EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
    I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
    And they shall prophesy.
    19 ‘AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
    AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
    BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
    20 ‘THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
    AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
    BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
    21 ‘AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’

    Now, if you disbelieve that Peter was quoting Joel, you can get it straight from Joel yourself. This is in Joel.

    Joel 2
    28 “It will come about after this
    That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
    And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    Your old men will dream dreams,
    Your young men will see visions.
    29 “Even on the male and female servants
    I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
    The Day of the LORD
    30 “I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
    Blood, fire and columns of smoke.
    31 “The sun will be turned into darkness
    And the moon into blood
    Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
    32 “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD
    Will be delivered;
    For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
    There will be those who escape,
    As the LORD has said,
    Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

    And if you don't believe that I quoted it correctly, please pick up your own bible and look it up yourself.

    The point that Peter (and Joel) made, is that the day had come, on the day of Pentecost, fifty days after Jesus had risen from the grave, that this promise had been fulfilled, and that the Holy Spirit had indeed, that very day, been poured out on God's people.

    Please review Acts 1, before Peter begins his sermon, one more time.


    1 When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other [e]tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

    And I have certainly quoted to you enough times that you should know it by heart, if you have actually read it, that Jesus promised His apostles that the Holy Spirit would come to them.

    So, back we go to Acts, where the Holy Spirit gave the apostles utterance. The word utterance is from the greek word ἀποφθέγγομαι
    Transliteration:apophtheggomai

    It means:) to speak out, speak forth, pronounce

    a) not a word of everyday speech but one "belonging to dignified and elevated discourse"

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  29. Mr Raza;

    Would verses with the exact same phrase "Word of God" help? Here are some, in which the apostles are shown to be preaching the "word of God."


    Now compare the apostles, who were chosen by God, with the spreading of the word of God.


    John 3:33-35
    33 He who has received His testimony has set his seal to this, that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. 35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.


    Acts 4:31
    And when they had prayed, place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.



    Acts 6:6-7
    6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them.

    7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.


    Acts 13:46
    Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Mr Raza

    This is what you wrote:

    "You seem to be very ignorant by saying that Muhammad converted only heathens. A huge number of Christians entered into Islam and still joining it all over the world. "

    No you seem to be confused about what a prophet is. A prophet of God preaches to the people of God. Moses, and Jeremiah did not set out to Tyre to preach to the Phoenicians. They preached to the Israelites, who were God's people.

    The prophets in the first century church, did not prophesy to the Greeks. They prophesied inside the churches, which were where the Lord's people were.

    That is what a prophet does, Sir.

    Mohammad did not set off "prophesying" to Christians. It isn't an issue as to whether some Christians believed him or not. The fact is, Mohammad set out prophesying to idol-worshippers, not Christians and/or Jews.

    But more to the point, which you have apparently missed is that Mohammad could not have prophesied to the Christian church. Because, and I am pretty sure we have been over this two times before, Prophesy had ceased by the end of the first century. The canon of the church was closed by the time Mohammad began his --whatever it was.

    In that case, Mohammad had, by definition, "failed." The church would not and could not have accepted his prophesy. There was no prophesy to be had after the revelation of John, and Christians knew this very well.

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  31. Biblical definitions of the Word of God.


    Luke 8:11
    11 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.


    Ephesians 6:17
    17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.


    Hebrews 4:12
    12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Mr Raza

    Thank you for quoting what Jesus said about the Holy Spirit.

    The reason that the Holy Spirit came to earth was to tell the apostles and prophet what to write"

    But Jesus said in John 16:12-15:

    12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”


    In this verse, Jesus promises the apostles that the Holy Spirit will give them prophetic utterance. But that is not the only thing that Jesus promised the apostles that the Holy Spirit would do.

    The Holy Spirit would also remind them of things that Jesus had already taught them, and teach them additional things.


    John 14:25-27
    25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

    It was all of the things which the apostles were not only to preach to the world, but to write down, for the following generations, and I have already quoted Peter and Paul saying as much.

    Please refer to the previous verses I have quoted.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Tiwas!

    I said and you quoted me:

    "Thus the Bible cannot be called literal word of God as the original words spoken by God are not known today”

    Then you quoted me again:

    You wrote: "I simply asked to quote from the Bible that it is word of God".
    In the first quote I am stating my belief that the Bible cannot be called literal word of God and in the 2nd quote I am asking you to show that it is word of God. If you read what I write without being emotional you may see the difference.

    Then you quoted Paul saying that every scripture is inspired by God, but you do not realize that the scripture Paul was talking about is OT. There was no NT at that time. Even that statement of Paul is wrong because no author of any book of OT claims that he is writing this book under the inspiration of God. So NT is totally out of question as far as this statement of Paul is concerned and for OT it is false.

    donna60!

    You have not answered my question.

    Why did not Peter mentioned that this coming down of the Holy Ghost is according to what Jesus said? Why did he quote Joel?

    If he had informed the Jews that this is the fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus, it would have made them believe in him, but, instead of quoting Jesus, Peter is quoting Joel.

    I further said that according to Jesus, notwithstanding his presence among his disciples, they were not strong enough to bear the things Jesus could have said to them. But, amazingly, soon after his departure, within 50 days they became strong and were able to bear whatever the Holy Ghost had to tell them. Probably it was Jesus who was an obstruction to their strength to bear the divine revelation.

    You wrote and I quote:

    “So, back we go to Acts, where the Holy Spirit gave the apostles utterance. The word utterance is from, the greek word ἀποφθέγγομαι Transliteration: apophtheggomai. It means:) to speak out, speak forth pronounce a) not a word of everyday speech but one "belonging to dignified and elevated discourse"

    My question is that were the disciples not able to utter before this day and if they were, then what difference the Holy Ghost made to them. If , as you said it was not every day speech but one “belonging to dignified and elevated discourse”, then this is exactly what I am asking that WHAT WAS THAT DIGNIFIED AND ELEVATED SPEECH”.

    You also need to ponder over John 16:13 where Jesus is quoted as saying that when the Spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all the truth. It explicitly shows that Jesus did not tell them all the truth. It strengthens my point and I am rightful to demand you to show me from the Bible what was that other truth which Jesus did not tell them and postponed till the coming of the Spirit of truth.

    The verses containing the phrase “word of God” do not help. This phrase is found innumerable times in other books. It does not make them word of God. What I need is statement of any author of any book of the Bible to the effect that that he is inspired by God and he is writing under the inspiration of God.

    Your definition of a prophet of God is once again concocted and fabricated. If prophets preach only to the people of God, and as you confessed, Israelites are people of God, then why did Paul preached to those who are NOT people of God?

    You are very ignorant about the history of Islam. Muhammad did prophesied to the Christian Church as well as the Jews. Many Jews and Christians accepted him. As a matter of fact the first person after Muhammad’s wife who testified Muhammad as a true prophet of God was a Christian cousin of his wife. Muhammad not only prophesied to the People of the Book, i.e., Jews and Christians, but also wrote letters to Christian Kings, one of them, the King of Abyssinia , accepted him and converted to Islam, and after his death, Muhammad offered his funeral prayer. Many Christian delegations, including the famous Najran delegation (Najran is in Yemen south of present-day Saudia) visited Muhammad and he preached to them.

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  34. Hi Ansar,
    You wrote:
    "Then you quoted Paul saying that every scripture is inspired by God, but you do not realize that the scripture Paul was talking about is OT. There was no NT at that time. Even that statement of Paul is wrong because no author of any book of OT claims that he is writing this book under the inspiration of God. So NT is totally out of question as far as this statement of Paul is concerned and for OT it is false."

    - What do you mean by "no NT at that time"?
    - Why do the authors of the books in OT need to claim that he was writing under the inspiration of God? Isn't it obvious that they were writing under the inspiration of God?
    - And even IF the authors of the OT books did claim writing under the inspiration of God, would that claim validate that the authors was indeed writing under the inspiration of God?

    - I ask this because you seems to imply that if an author claim his/her writing is inspired by God, we should accept his/her claim as true.
    - Circular reasoning?

    ReplyDelete
  35. tiwas!

    By NT I mean "New Testament". When Paul said that 'every scripture is inspired by God' there was no gospel, no book of acts, no book of revelation and not even the letters were considered word of God. More than 300 years later all these man-written books were canonized and declared word of God.

    It is very funny statement that the authors of OT need not to claim that they are being inspired by God to write these books as it is obvious. It may be obvious for you not for any non-Christian.

    I never said or did any circular reasoning that I'll accept if you present claim of any author of any book of the Bible that he is writing under Divine inspiration. My point is that there has to be a claim first duly supported by evidence.


    So showing claim from the Bible is step 1 and showing evidence, also from the Bible not your concocted one, is step 2. But hold-on! There is another step in between these two steps and that is the dictionary / literary meaning and encyclopedic definition of the word "word".

    You poor Christians cannot even show any claim from the Bible that it is a word of God let alone the evidence.

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  36. Hi Ansar,
    You said:"When Paul said that 'every scripture is inspired by God' there was no gospel, no book of acts, no book of revelation and not even the letters were considered word of God."

    - Actually, in 2 Peter 3:15-16, Paul's writings was regarded as scripture by Peter.
    "And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures.

    - Also Luke 10:7 was quoted in 1 Timothy 5:18 and regarded as scripture.

    You wrote: "I never said or did any circular reasoning that I'll accept if you present claim of any author of any book of the Bible that he is writing under Divine inspiration. My point is that there has to be a claim first duly supported by evidence."

    - I did gave you the claim, but you dismissed them as false. Even just by reading the books in OT we'll find verses such as
    "The Lord’s spirit spoke through me; his word was on my tongue." 2 Samuel 23:2
    or
    "Then the Lord reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, “I will most assuredly give you the words you are to speak for me." Jeremiah 1:9

    - Isn't these verses obviously say they are the inspired word of God?
    - Anyone, believers or unbelievers would instantly recognize that the author is claiming to have written down God's words.

    - Now, the main difference between us is your definition of "word" is that they must be the exact word that God spoke.

    Example:
    If God said "Don't kill and steal" would it be wrong if the wording changed to "Don't steal and kill"? will the meaning be different because of the word switch? Of course not.

    Another problem is, you are viewing the Bible the same way you view the Quran.
    The Bible isn't just the inspired Word of God, but also a historical documents that can be examined like other documents of antiquity.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Mr Raza

    There is a difference between "evangelizing" and "prophesying" They are two different roles inside the church. Some men were prophets, and some men were evangelists.


    Ephesians 4:10-12
    10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

    Evangelizing, was going into the world to preach the gospel. Prophesying was performed inside the church itself, which is made up of God's people:

    1 Corinthians 14

    26 What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion but of [m]peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

    Besides this, don't forget that prophesy had ceased by the end of the first century in the church. It's purpose was to acquire the word of God, and once the word of God was complete, prophesy came to an end, and the bible records this.

    That means that no man outside of the first century was able to prophesy, including, but not limited to Mohammad--at least in so far as to God's people. Mohammad could "prophesy" to a different people, about a different God, but he could not speak to the Lord's people about new prophesy from God. They had received all of the revelation they were expecting to get.

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  38. The reason that Peter referred to Joel, is because he was preaching (evangelizing, not prophesying) to Jews. The point of reference was Joel. The Jews knew who Joel was, and they believe the words of Joel. What Peter continued to do was to use the prophesy of Joel, to prove that Jesus Christ was God, and had died for the sins of everyone,

    This is the point of Peter's sermon, which he continued, after quoting from Joel

    Acts 2
    22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,[d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

    “‘I saw the Lord always before me.
    Because he is at my right hand,
    I will not be shaken.
    26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
    my body also will rest in hope,
    27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
    you will not let your holy one see decay.
    28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
    you will fill me with joy in your presence.’[e]

    29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

    “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
    35 until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet.”’[f]

    36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

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  39. Mr Raza

    This is what I am responding to:

    You also need to ponder over John 16:13 where Jesus is quoted as saying that when the Spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all the truth. It explicitly shows that Jesus did not tell them all the truth. It strengthens my point and I am rightful to demand you to show me from the Bible what was that other truth which Jesus did not tell them and postponed till the coming of the Spirit of truth.

    First of all, how would I know all of the information that Jesus said to His apostles in the three years of His ministry? All I know is what was written down, and preserved, which is, as Christians assert the definition of the "word of God."

    What I do know that Jesus spent forty days teaching His apostles is recorded in Acts 1.
    And we know this is true, and the word of God, because it was recorded, and preserved by the Lord's people:

    Acts 1
    1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
    6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

    7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

    9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

    10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven

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  40. Mr Raza

    This is your question

    My question is that were the disciples not able to utter before this day and if they were, then what difference the Holy Ghost made to them. If , as you said it was not every day speech but one “belonging to dignified and elevated discourse”, then this is exactly what I am asking that WHAT WAS THAT DIGNIFIED AND ELEVATED SPEECH”.

    If you want to know what the dignified speeches were which were made by the apostles, please read the book of Acts, and the letters of these men. These are the utterances of the Holy Spirit, which were given to the apostles.

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  41. People of the Book (ahlul kitab) . The term refers to Jews and Nasrani (Children of Israel) that follow the prophecy in their scripture about the coming of a prophet from the East (Land where Ishmael's descendants inhabit). As the People of the Book were given the message about things to come regarding the righteous servant of God that will obliterate molten images worshiped in East. Nasrani (during the time of 12 disciples) do not refer to Christians that uses Greek Roman gospels, but rather Hebrew alphabet gospels (used by Jewish Nasoreans/Ebionites) that do not posses stories written by Roman scribes.

    However there are Nasrani that have disbelieved, by acknowledging falsehood stories (Triune) during early times. (Quran 5:17)


    If the Roman Christians were indeed People of the Book like Jewish followers of Jesus. They should have settled in the East as well awaiting for the arrival of the Servant of God . Just like People of the Book that made settlements surrounding the location of prophecy awaiting for the arrival of the prophet.

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